moodgusic got together with Ernie Brooks of Arthur's Landing before their June 25th performance at Tramway in Glasgow. Long time collaborator and dear friend to Arthur Russell, Ernie Brooks talks about Arthur's music and the fandom surrounding it, the future of Arthur's Landing and his endeavours outside of the project.
moodgusic: Steven talked about how there’s a dysfunction when you’re all on stage, and how it’s a good thing.
EB: Yeah it means it’s a little bit, we’re not, you might say we’re paradoxically over-rehearsed and under-rehearsed. We all have our ideas and we’ve all played the songs a lot, but we never played them the same way. And we can’t agree on which songs to do, who should be in the band – things like that, critical things. Maybe we’re all inspired by Arthur’s spirit; he was one of the more difficult human beings. If something sounded really good he’d say “We’ve gotta stop doing that.”
moodgusic: Does it seem easier when you’re recording music with Arthur’s Landing – you’re playing Arthur’s music.
EB: Well that’s what I thought. I thought finally we could do Arthur’s music and you know, kind of record it in a fairly sane way and get it done. Maybe Arthur’s ghost in the wiring of the studio.
moodgusic: Does part of you miss that; the amount of takes, his control in the studio?
EB: Yeah, not that his control and creation of chaos. It’s true, Arthur did have a very weird vision of something he wanted. But because he never quite got there, he’d end up with many, many versions of songs. That’s sort of something which goes on now, I’ll find a cassette, like version of (This is How We) Walk On The Moon and bring it to rehearsal and it’s got incredible singing, and cello playing. So you know, I have several crates of cassettes from rehearsals and studio stuff. So sometimes I’ll listen to one and say “Shit, that really sounds better than what we’re doing” so it pushes you onward, but it’s difficult.
moodgusic: Do you all of the DAT tapes from the time?
EB: A lot of DAT tapes, a lot of cassettes and a lot of reel-to-reel.
moodgusic: And do those formats deteriorate over time, or are they still listenable?
EB: DAT’s are very fragile mechanism, so some will break. I think all the tape formats are actually better than CD’s. CD’s are the worst, they get scratched, they suddenly stop playing. Tape is more gradual, and more forgiving, and I’m always surprised how great old cassettes sound. On a whim I just bought turntables that converts as a turntable and a cassette player and make CD’s from it. So I can at least take stuff and give it to other people, because I don’t want to give away the cassettes. I like the old format, I mean sometimes the tape, like that last album Love is Overtaking Me, we had to bake all those tapes. We made that from old reel-to-reel mixes. And as a precaution before playing it we’d out it in a convection over for a certain number of hours.
moodgusic: At least it was preserved, now it’s living another life.
EB: I’m really happy about how those records came out.
moodgusic: I think that’s my favorite release from Audika, the Love is Overtaking Me collection.
EB: Good ‘cause that was the one that everyone was dubious about. That was the one that I played on most of the songs and it was sort of from the era that I was doing the most work with Arthur. There was actually only one The Flying Hearts song, from the original Flying Hearts. There’s tonnes of that material that hasn’t come out. So I hope it does.
Ernie Brooks Photograph property of Mustafa Ahmed
moodgusic: Hopefully. Steven was talking about his solo work, and you as well, you both are working on solo work, is that something you’ve considered putting onto an Arthur’s Landing release along with Arthur’s music?
EB: Not really. In fact, I sort of make a distinction. I mean maybe, it depends on what the future is. That’s another idea of Arthur’s Landing, we all do solo stuff and Arthur’s stuff just to bring it more into the present. And there’s a few songs that I co-wrote with Arthur, and there’s a couple of unfinished songs that I’d like to finish what we started. That would be another way of connecting it. The problem is there’s so much, Steven has a lot of songs, Peter has some amazing stuff. I don’t know if you know Peter’s solo work, it’s pretty cool. And Joyce is not here tonight, what can I say, it’s a big question mark. All I can say is yeah I like playing Arthur’s songs because I don’t know anybody who writes better songs. And I guess that in the rare case that we thought we’d written a song that’s as good as Arthur’s, then we could release it.
moodgusic: Do you think that it might prolong the life of Arthur’s Landing. Steven talked about how difficult it’s getting and that he can’t see the project too far ahead in the future, something along those lines. There was a line I read in Hold Onto Your Dreams, you had said Arthur’s music is something you’d like to be playing for the rest of your life. I’m sure the rest of Arthur’s Landing feel that way too, so maybe mixing the stuff you do with Arthur’s music and Steven’s or Peter’s. Do you think that would prolong the life of Arthur’s Landing?
EB: Well it might, or it could be another band that would do Arthur’s stuff with other personnel. Steven decided he didn’t want to perform with Joyce, and I like performing with Joyce so would there be two bands then? I don’t know, all I’m sure is that there’ll be some entity, whether it’s Arthur’s Landing or something else. It’s funny, I did a solo album, which was very obscure, a long time ago.
Elodie Lauten and Ernie Brooks Photograph property of Mustafa Ahmed
moodgusic: Was that on Moon Caravan?
EB: No it was a French label, New Rose Records. I did several of Arthur’s songs on that. So I was doing Arthur’s songs before.
moodgusic: Have any of you been approached by someone who’s looking to make a biopic or maybe write another book about Arthur from a different angle?
EB: Not really no, I’m always happy to do it. I’ve got to say that Tim Lawrence’s book is pretty exhausted, it really covers his story. I mean of course it doesn’t cover, I certainly said a lot of what I would say for that book. But that’s an interesting thought, that’s funny ‘cause I know a guy who’s a Princeton graduate student who’s writing an analysis of Arthur’s music for his doctoral thesis.
moodgusic: That should be interesting.
EB: And he asked me to play, so I did some of Instrumentals. I guess that’s one of the things he’s focusing on, the structure of that music. Because Arthur’s music does have a very, I’m not enough of a trained musician or know enough music theory to say exactly what it is or why it is, but it has to do with, I think his, it might have to with how he would often write down, that song What It’s Like. I remember he woke up one morning and it was in his head and he wrote down the melody and then tried to put chords to it and gradually evolve the chord structure around it, which is very complicated, it’s not an easy song to play. Because it was the melody which came first, and part of the words - but you know he had so many songs coming all the time.
moodgusic: What It’s Like and Close My Eyes were, I think two of the best moments on Love Is Overtaking Me. I really enjoyed them. I got Tim Lawrence mixed up with Matt Wolf – how exciting was it to be approached by this man who’s looking to put a lot of work, and he really did, how exciting was this interest, also with Tim Lawrence.
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EB: Oh it’s great because it’s a story that needs, I don’t know, everybody has a story when you start to examine it and you know, Arthur’s story is particularly interesting. He came from some place, of so much ‘not New York’ and then end up being such a creature of New York. That part of the Lower East Side, I mean I’ve got to say, in the book itself it’s got everything there, it’s hard – books about musicians and music I usually find hard to read, if I wasn’t so involved with it I might find that one hard to read as well. Some guy wrote a book about The Modern Lovers and I helped him proof read it, but I couldn’t read it. It was by Johnathan Richman, I did interviews for The Modern Lovers part. I don’t know maybe when you’ve lived something you’re always nervous to read about it again. It makes you nervous in the sense that you’re always going to find mistakes, not to mention how authors always want to know “Was that on Tuesday night 1974? Was so and so happy with this and that?”. So do you think that there are a lot of people in Glasgow that listen to Arthur’s music? I mean that’s another thing, everybody talks about this phenomenon and you find out that it’s such a big phenomenon; it’s a pretty small one. A really narrowly focused phenomenon.
moodgusic: Yeah, it isn’t huge, more narrowly focused like you said. People that love his music, truly love it. I think it’s that niche aspect that allows for there to be so much adoration for his music.
EB: I really thought that in the day people would hear the songs – that’s in the book, I took all those tapes to all those record companies and they looked at me with total incomprehension. So it’s gratifying to feel now that I wasn’t insane. That there was really something there.
moodgusic: It takes two to tango – you’ve to find the right label that’s willing to, not necessarily take a risk but put the support behind it.
EB: It’s also, for example when we started The Flying Hearts we were playing these soft melodic songs right when the punk stuff was coming in. That’s one of the things that made it hard, that it was not the right music for that time. But it’s more the music for this time.
moodgusic: What do you think it would’ve been like if you, Arthur and everyone else were getting your start up today with all the technology that people have to make music. What do you think it would’ve been like?
EB: Well Arthur I would say that he got so crazy with cutting up pieces of tape up, pro-tools would’ve made his life so much easier, but at the same time he might’ve just gone off and totally got lost in that and never come back. He would’ve welded his brain to a micro-processor and gone into cyberspace. Not to mention the internet, that would’ve made him completely nuts, as it’s made us all somewhat nuts. It’s funny, I’m not really into the digital stuff, I still really like going into a recording studio and recording in sort of an old fashioned way. It’s sort of a bargain with the devil with the ease in which you can make stuff on digital – I think often, songs get lost, they get cut up and endlessly reprocessed and layered. I may be old fashion but still what moves me in music is hearing words, melody and you know feeling the words, the meaning. Arthur’s words were beautiful, as poetry. That’s also another thing I was involved with to an extent, the poetry scene in New York, Steven was actually too. I knew a lot of poets, not just Ginsberg, but Corso and I was a fan of William Carlos Williams I actually think I dabbled that guy in one of the liner notes. Arthur’s lyrics were all tied into that. The idea of simplicity, poetic uses of language that were simple.
moodgusic: Would you be able to tell me about some of the music you’re listening to now. Any new music this year, or old music you’ve picked up on?
EB: I started listening to vinyl, and I have tonnes of vinyl and periodically my turntable breaks, so I bought this new one and I listened to the first Pretenders record, which is a great record. Listening to the second Them album, a new group that Steven introduced me to called Warpaint. There’s so many bands in Williamsburg – I’ll tell you, another one, friends of my 20 year old daughter, graduated from Wesley and there’s a lot of Wesley bands one of them is called Das Racist, you know them?
moodgusic: Yeah, they’re a rap group.
EB: What is it, “I’m at the Pizza Hut, the Taco Bell”, that’s a genius song. What else, some of – I don’t know, I can’t think of anything else. I also play with this guy Gary Lucas, do you know him?
moodgusic: I think so.
Ernie Brooks Photograph property of Mustafa Ahmed
EB: He co-wrote with Jeff Buckley, who’s father I like, Tim Buckley. So me and Gary, we have a record we just did. It was produced by Gerry Harrison, it’s a good sounding record. I’ve actually been playing a lot. He’s also been doing a project with these versions of Chinese pop songs from Shanghai in the 30’s. Two weeks ago we were doing that at this big festival in Amsterdam. I’m trying to think what I heard there that I liked. I didn’t get to hear much music.
moodgusic: Have you been to many live shows lately?
EB: I go out in New York, sometimes, but not so often. I should go out more, I just feel like it’s overwhelming going to a club to hear many bands. Shoot, what’s another group that’s good, The Antlers, they were pretty cool when I saw them. There’s a group called The Double, I like them. I don’t even know if they’re still playing, bands come and go.
moodgusic: Thanks very much for your time Ernie.
Arthur's Landing's self titled debut release is out now on Strut Records.
Unedited interview recording~
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*Special thanks to Philip Larkin for giving me shelter and bein' the best.
*Apologies to Ernie Brooks and Arthur's Landing for the delayed publishing of this interview.
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